Curse

Leon_Ux-ixen · Mar 22, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

I personaly make my own groups when do SF farming. Why? For two very simple reasons.

1. Rangers have a low chance of being accepted in SF farming groups.

2. I like my own builds I WILL NOT change my set which I'm comfortable with to make the leader feel better, I'm a player not a bloodly hench.

This guide may help the newer guys get set and comfortable with farming in SF till they can come up with a set that will work for them. Sorry to say I feel it's wrong everyone has to be a Trapper, MM, SS, Tank, Stancer, Interrupt, Nuker Healer, or Bonder just to have a chance of being accepted. Please don't give that bull that "They are the only builds that work." I haven't found my own build that I am comfortbable yet with my R/N but I tell you this when my Mo/Wa get there I'm not sitting back and mataining a dang thing :P I'll heal but won't sit back and twidle my tumbs and let all the fun pass by.

KvanCetre · Mar 22, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

ok try this trick and when you have double the amount of minions because they are not constantly degenning, then you being a monk wont mind the occasional heal other on the necro due to the fact that you have twice the army you normally have.

You of course realize that minions eventually will degen to death no matter what, right? You can only +10 them, they eventually get around -20 degen...

Savio · Mar 22, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

How to win PvE. Very informative.

wsmcasey · Mar 22, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

If you wana do ORO farming thats fine. Why isn't ORO in the title of this thread?

I prefer forming a well rounded group rather than this cookie cutter crap.

MelechRic · Mar 22, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by KvanCetre

Strange - my level 15 Death Magic MM has completed tons of runs without a single problem - and I do have a single attack skill!

Also strange - most of the experienced MMs I've been friends with all say the same thing: Fiends only.

But of course, you're the expert here, not us.

I actually bring Fiends and Horrors. There are several reasons:

1. Corpse denial. If I'm under 25 energy but above 15 I can get a horror up instead of a fiend. This prevents a well or enemy fiend.

2. Horrors are good body blockers. They hold back most ground based melee and do decent damage to casters. I like to see a group of horrors holding back a mob while my equally large group of fiends snipes. Fiends seem vulnerable to melee. Dead fiends do no damage so I prefer to have a few horrors sucking the damage up.

3. Horrors + Fiends = larger army. It's nice to be able to scrub off any melee attention I get by running into my minion cluster. More than a few monks I've teamed with have used the minions to the same effect.

I like to think of it this way:

Horrors = mashed potatoes
Fiends = gravy

The only downside is that sometimes horrors will get stuck behind fiends and not go melee. I find this to be acceptable.

Lastly, I do bring two offensive skills: Life Siphon and Rotting Flesh. Siphon is to take a little pressure off the monk. I cast it when I have extra energy (ie no corpses available to me). Rotting is nice for a good group degen on mobs under SS. It takes some thinking to apply since you don't want to get it on any Gnashers w/ Plague Touch. Otherwise it's a good fire and forget skill.

As to the OP's thread... I'd only say that the skill bar isn't the most important factor that determines success. The brains behind that bar, however, are crucial to success. You can do well in SF with a variety of builds, but you have to be willing to try other things. This takes time that some people aren't willing to spend.

5 man template teams are out there because they are like IWAY... they are easy to build for newer players and they have a high success rate. The same goes for other types of teams like B/P in UW2 or 55hp Mo + SS/SV necro.

Haggard · Mar 22, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimateWarrior101

Your elite skill should be Offering of Blood or Tainted Flesh.

Glyph of Energy > OoB for MMing.

Oh and, only take fiends, as horrors deal tiny damage and can sometimes stop the tank from being able to tank.

Nater · Mar 22, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard

Glyph of Energy > OoB for MMing.

Oh and, only take fiends, as horrors deal tiny damage and can sometimes stop the tank from being able to tank.

Glyph of Lesser Energy + OoB is even better.

I've tried them all.

Zaxan Razor · Mar 22, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimateWarrior101

Ok, I've been having trouble finding descent Sorrows Furnace groups lately. It's usually a good group, with the exception of 1 guy not doing his part. In a 5 man group, if 1 guy isnt doing his intended role, the whole team can suffer. I'm making a little guideline for you new players that want to try out sorrows furnace farming.

Tank:
Do not bring attack skills. You're going to be holding a keg or a gear the entire time inside the furnace. Bring stances and shouts, and if you're a warrior/monk, bring balthazar's spirit and cast it upon yourself. Simple as that. Never drop the keg/gear, spam your stances and shouts. In my experience, the best elite to bring is Gladiatiors Defense, but if you want to bring Shield of Judgement or something else, thats fine. As long as you stick to stances/shouts, and NOT attack skills.

Minion Master:
16 Death Magic is a must. Your role is to make minions and keep them alive. You do not need to bring attack skills. Deathly swarm should not be on your skillbar. Bring fiends and horrors. Your elite skill should be Offering of Blood or Tainted Flesh. There's no need for you to bring spiteful spirit. Put as many points in soul reaping as you have leftover from death.

Spiteful Spirit:
16 Curses a must. You must be a Necromancer/mesmer. Don't bother arguing, N/Me is the most effective SS build. You MUST bring Spinal Shivers. Without that, killing monk bosses is going to take forever, or it will be impossible. Other than spiteful spirit and spinal shivers and arcane echo, you're pretty much free to bring whatever you want. I like to bring malaise, parasitic bond, and weaken armor, a hex removal from the mesmer skillbase, mantra of resolve, and rez sig or blood ritual. There is no need for you to bring any attack skills, and do not bring Mark of Pain. It causes enemies to scatter, making Spiteful less effective.

The problem usually lies with these 3 players. The monks seem to always be good. I know this may sound like basic knowledge to some of you, and it is, but for some people, they just don't know. It's frustrating for me and other experienced players to team up with unexperienced players and waste time.

I hope this helped, and I hope that people can start playing their roles a little better.

The problem here is, that you're too close minded. There are millions of possible ways to farm orozar with 5 players. Infact, the only mission that can't be done with henchies is the priest mission.

So i don't see why everyone always wants to take the same team structure.

heavyduty · Mar 22, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Most people don't farm these spots to have fun. Having fun is what guildmates are for. Blindly taking a more balanced team for this particular run only means everything is likely to take longer. It's hard enough already to find decent people that can play their role in the 5 man team, Who in their right mind would take a chance on an ele, mesmer or ranger? Ele's have bad energy management for extended damage output compared to an SS for the gear trick, the Rangers use of stances essentially nulls the bonders essense and Mesmers are primarily single target oriented characters.

All of you naysayers that hate the 'cookie cutter' crap are fooling yourselves if you think a popular and proven effective build is somehow inferior. How about posting in-depth proof on a better tactic? My main gripe is monks that don't use life attunement on the tank. On a subpar group this means failure.

edit: until anet once again makes changes to throw everything out the window.

Carinae · Mar 22, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyduty

All of you naysayers that hate the 'cookie cutter' crap are fooling yourselves if you think a popular and proven effective build is somehow inferior. How about posting in-depth proof on a better tactic?

In-depth proof? This Guru you know. Here's what happens when you do that:

You get laughed at, ridiculed, told that math & reason means nothing, told you're pathetic, stupid, brainless, skill-less, told that NO build is better than ANY other build, outright challenged for no apparent reason, and the best one: "Nu-uh!"

Nater · Mar 22, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyduty

My main gripe is monks that don't use life attunement on the tank. On a subpar group this means failure.

Are you kidding? Life Attunement?

Fluffyx · Mar 23, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nater

Are you kidding? Life Attunement?

If you want to use life atunement so bad just bring inspired enchant and steal it from yakslappy. :]

Francis Crawford · Mar 23, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyduty

Most people don't farm these spots to have fun.

It's a game. People play games to have fun.

Fluffyx · Mar 23, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Crawford

It's a game. People play games to have fun.

What hes saying is that people come to sorrows to make money, not to play around. Which is pretty true since you dont see many quest groups forming these days.

studentochaos · Mar 23, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyduty

Most people don't farm these spots to have fun. Having fun is what guildmates are for.

Different people have diffferent kinds of fun. To be frank, if you still farm for a purpose it is because you aren't rich enough. Some people ACTUALLY like farming and like finding similar minded people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyduty

Blindly taking a more balanced team for this particular run only means everything is likely to take longer. It's hard enough already to find decent people that can play their role in the 5 man team, Who in their right mind would take a chance on an ele, mesmer or ranger? Ele's have bad energy management for extended damage output compared to an SS for the gear trick, the Rangers use of stances essentially nulls the bonders essense and Mesmers are primarily single target oriented characters.

I don't mean grab any random ranger (though I would accept a group started by a ranger or whatever). But I do regularly bring people who I have farmed with using different builds. Damage output on an N primary SS can get curses brought up to 16, but any type of character can carry SS. The 16 means your one trick is faster. If your SS really only has three skills it is a trash player. The real reason it is good to bring a necro is because soul reaping in SF acts like "energy management for dummies." If the build can self manage and do high damage fast it is great. SS has weaknesses. Loner enemies, strange grouping, and shifting enemy positions (as well as user error by people who don't know how to place it well) all make SS worse then A. a fire ele or B. Barrage Ranger. Mesmers do do good damage against single targets. Good thing N with SS can be their secondary so now they can tear those bosses into pieces without a second thought. To those who think minion mancers and SS necro can't be beaten and have no weakness, it is because you haven't played one or when you did play it you had your brain turned to off and thus missed the glaring problems.

If you don't want a ranger because they stance then you don't want a good player at all. You realize when the 5 man calls for a stance tank they mean it. If the enemy hits are missing it means that is damage that doesn't have to be healed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyduty

All of you naysayers that hate the 'cookie cutter' crap are fooling yourselves if you think a popular and proven effective build is somehow inferior. How about posting in-depth proof on a better tactic? My main gripe is monks that don't use life attunement on the tank. On a subpar group this means failure.

I like life attunement too. I have always seen it used as the last part of the bond set so it acts a strip bait. Total junk.

Manic Smile · Mar 23, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Damnit cookie stay in the mold...

Sekkira · Mar 23, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

raaarghbwwbwwrhiofh

Manic Smile · Mar 23, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nater

Are you kidding? Life Attunement?

Yes the bonder should bring life attunment imo.

Life Barrier/Life Bond/Life Attunement/Essence

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard

Glyph of Energy > OoB for MMing.

Oh and, only take fiends, as horrors deal tiny damage and can sometimes stop the tank from being able to tank.

agh *beat head on wall*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

In-depth proof? This Guru you know. Here's what happens when you do that:

You get laughed at, ridiculed, told that math & reason means nothing, told you're pathetic, stupid, brainless, skill-less, told that NO build is better than ANY other build, outright challenged for no apparent reason, and the best one: "Nu-uh!"

lol...*tear*...just gotta smile...it helps I promise...and until that guy invents the thingy that lets you stab people through the internet...well it's all you got...and I'm sure the government would begin to crack down on that soon anway...or MS would steal it and make all the money off it forcing you to pay to stab that guy in the eye with a fork

Rathcail · Mar 23, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Yay, my MM doesn't meet the OP's standards.
Good thing I can grab four henchies and do it on my own without gimping some elite parties.

Tarkin · Mar 23, 2006, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffyx

What hes saying is that people come to sorrows to make money, not to play around. Which is pretty true since you dont see many quest groups forming these days.

Some of the best quests of the game are in furnace...